Jamesfromjersey
Wildcat
Registered: 02/21/09
Posts: 88
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| | 05/20/09 at 04:45 PM | Reply with quote | #1 |
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With the recent introduction of all the new "super" mag handgun rounds like the 460 and 500 S&W and their handguns I was wondering what the members thought of them??
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ChrisO
Moderator
Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 140
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| | 05/21/09 at 05:09 AM | Reply with quote | #2 |
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Hello James, Great Topic !
The only big bore handguns I've shot that are more powerful than the .44 Mag were the .460 S & W and the .500 S & W. Both were in the "heavy for caliber" X-Frames Smith & Wesson revolvers, and both had 10 1/2" bbls. , which to me seemed alittle long & very heavy. Not something I would want to carry in a holster all day long. Both were very accurate, and if I remember correctly as its been acouple of years since I shot them, I kept my 25 yrd 5 shot groups just under 2". Evan though I know of some people out there that can shoot 50 or 100 yrd groups of 2-3 ". I was satisfied with my shooting. Recoil for both calibers was not nearly as bad as I've read, I would say again because of the heavy weight of the guns. I think both calibers, for me the .500 in particular would be much better served in a lighter weight double action or single action with a 5 - 6" bbl. Yes there are special order guns out there like the "John Ross" guns, but their still to heavy in that X-Frame model for me.
If money were not a problem, and it is, my dream handgun would be a S.S. Ruger Bisley made up by John Linebaugh himself in his .500 Linebaugh with a 5 1/2" bbl. This would easily be carried all day with out a problem.
That's where I stand on this matter.
Take Care !
Chris
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ace
Wildcat
Registered: 06/14/08
Posts: 83
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| | 05/21/09 at 06:48 AM | Reply with quote | #3 |
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Hi James
As for the super mags, I don't hunt with a pistol so a .44 mag is more than enough for me. Maybe in grizzly country they would be a good choice.
Also, my hands can't take heavy recoil anymore.
ace
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albroswift
Moderator
Registered: 06/02/08
Posts: 581
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| | 05/21/09 at 08:05 AM | Reply with quote | #4 |
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As we say in South Park: "More Gunpowder, More Fun!"
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“If it rolls, floats, flies or shoots, runs on gasoline or gunpowder, goes fast or shoots a big bullet and makes lots of noise, thus producing torque and recoil — it’s cool.”
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SafarisAfrica
Wildcat
Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 109
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| | 05/21/09 at 03:37 PM | Reply with quote | #5 |
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I like big bullets. Many years ago I hunted with a 45/70 tc JD Jones made up for me.
More recently I purchased a 510 Reeder its a slightly shortened 500 Linebaugh. I would not recommend Reeder guns and if I had it to do over I would have had Andy Horvath build a 500 from scratch he ended up making it right!
Its a lot of fun to shoot, is it necessary probably not I will not scope a handgun so these days a long shot is 50 yards it is probably no more effective than my 44 mag with 300 grainers but it is a lot of fun to shoot and with loads approaching 1000 fps very easy on the hand.
When I got the gun I was recovering from carpal tunnel surgery and shooting it with full bore loads was very hard on my palm as it was very tender from the surgery.
Interestingly enough if you go to Linebaugh's web site he likes a 45 Colt in a Smith model 25.
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Len
http://www.safarisafrica-zimbabwe.com |
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Jamesfromjersey
Wildcat
Registered: 02/21/09
Posts: 88
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| | 05/24/09 at 05:15 AM | Reply with quote | #6 |
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Len, Right now I`am having John Gallager making me a 5 shot 45 Colt on a Ruger Bisley frame and in the past I had plenty of handgun work done by the late Austin Behlert. I`ve never owned a Reeder handgun but was curious as to why you would not recommend them??
Chris, The muzzle breaks on the S&W 460 and 500 handguns do alot to dampen the kick ,however the muzzle blast from my 460 took off the face plate of my chronograph while shooting from a bench and hearing protection is a "must" even when hunting.That was damm good shootin you did at the range with those handcannons.....
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ChrisO
Moderator
Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 140
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| | 05/24/09 at 06:09 AM | Reply with quote | #7 |
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James,
Thanks for your kind words. It's getting so much harder as I get older to shoot. I'm 47 1/2 now... but I've been waring glasses since I was in second grade & my eyes have gotten steadily bad ever since. Those 2" groups I forgot to say were off sandbags, I wish I could say they were shot off-hand. Last year I shot my first deer with a handgun & the shot was only about 15 yrds ! If you want to read the story go over to "Single-Actions.com" and go to the hunting thread and look down for "LAST DAY DOE".
Have a good day !
Chris
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SafarisAfrica
Wildcat
Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 109
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| | 05/24/09 at 09:10 AM | Reply with quote | #8 |
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James
I was first attracted to the Reeder .510 as it was on his web site as complete and ready to ship which in fact it was not available but he had another close to being finished. I agreed to wait and a few weeks later receive the gun and loading dies and brass .
The more I spoke with him the more I noticed he had a know it all attitude kind of do what I say and quit bothering me. While I do not appreciate people with attitudes some of them are very talented and I guess we all have our short comings.
I had requested a certain type of front site which he said he could not do? I thought I was dealing with a custom gun maker?
On loading for the .510 I found that the cases could not be sized down to tightly hold the bullet and that only the crimp kept the bullet in place. I had multiple conversations with Gary Reeder and at one point we exchanged die sets to no avail. Finally he told me to quit worrying about the case tension on the bullet and to rely only on the crimp! Now I am 62 years old probably 60 when I bought this gun and I have been hand loading since I was a teen. In fact the several thousand rounds I have fired at game in Africa were 99.9% hand loads. I also have had one of the best ballisticians in the country as my mentor for the past 25 years Ed Matunas. I KNEW REEDER WAS DEAD WRONG! Consistent case tension is very important to accuracy!
The dies were made by Hornady so I phoned them and got a very helpful and knowledgeable person to assist me. He asked that I return the dies and some cases, I complied. After he measured and examined everything I had sent him, he concluded the cases Reeder was presently selling were not manufactured by the same company as the cases he sent to Hornady when the dies were originally manufactured. Apparently the brass thickness is different. At any rate Hornady made a correct sizing die at no charge and that problem was resolved.
After running maybe 50 rounds thru the gun the ejector housing blew off I found the parts and lock tighted it together. The design flaw was that the ejector was screwed directly to the barrel the barrel was so thin due to the caliber that it could only be held by a couple of threads. It blew off again this time I lost most of the parts in the tall grass.
At this point I turned the gun over to Andy Horvath. He silver soldered a threaded nipple to the barrel that also acted as a recoil shoulder and had lots of threads to hold the ejector housing in place. He installed the site a Weigand interchangeable system, that Reeder would not do. He also found an issue with the timing or bolt engagement which he corrected. I had him make a set of wood grips to replace the blueish corian that looked like something from a kitchen counter top.
The gun is now complete and functions flawlessly but I eneded spending alot more than I would have having Andy build it in the first place.
Reeder lost what would have been a repeat customer. To sum it up Reeder is more of a production gun builder he does it one way and cuts corners to enhance his bottom line. Interestingly he is ignored by some writers most evident in Bowen's fine book on building custom handguns.You can sum it up by saying you get what you pay for but he is just as expensive as Horvath and not far off of the other well known builders.
Len
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http://www.safarisafrica-zimbabwe.com |
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fowler
Tenderfoot
Registered: 01/02/09
Posts: 9
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| | 05/25/09 at 06:57 AM | Reply with quote | #9 |
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I have played with a 500Mag in the 2 1/2" snubby that a buddy had (and replaced with a 4 3/4" 500WE and never regreated it for a second) , it was a very well put together gun, very handy as a bear back up or boat anchor your pick, but not my cup of tea! The gun had no porting and that to me is a plus, I hate muzzle blast far more than recoil, but I never found the recoil to be as nasty as everyone said it would be. Granted most of the loads we shot were 450gr at 1100fps but with that short of a barrel a lot of the 500 loads that go 1500 in a 8 3/8" barrel barely make 1200 in the snubby. It still was not the type of gun you could run double action quickly and hit anything after the first shot.
I personnally would rather have my 45 colt Mountain Gun for a bear gun loaded with 300 or 335gr hard cast bullets at 1000fps. Far lighter, easier to shoot, far faster second and third shots, and a far more pleasant piece to carry. As a primary hunting gun? If I want a gun that is the size and weight of a rifle I will carry a rifle! The big Smiths are novel but I don't want one. I mean even if I was going to get a dedicated scoped revolver I would far rather have a Freedom Arms with 9 or 10" tube in 454 or 475 hanging on a sling than those danged Smiths.
But to each their own, I do feel that Smith is pushing the gun in the wrong way, they are pushing the 460 with light bullets as a 200 yard hunting revolver! I feel that gun begs for 360gr+ hard cast bullets and then only up to 100 yards, there are but a handful of guys who can honestly shoot that gun at 200 yard ranges but if Smith says they can then a bunch of bozos with try to kill game at 250 yards plus who probably have not shot their gun enough to get it properly sighted in! Smith is advertising for sales and it will result in a lot of crippled game out there.
Len, I am sorry for your bad experience with Reeder but it does seem to be the rule not the exception with him. I would not send someone I didn't like to him to have work done. And yes Corian that he loves to make grips from is the same Corian that they make counter tops from. I bet he rounded the the edges and corners off on your gun with his danged buffer too didn't he? Reeder truely is something else...
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Jamesfromjersey
Wildcat
Registered: 02/21/09
Posts: 88
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| | 05/25/09 at 08:41 AM | Reply with quote | #10 |
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Len, I called Reeder once and was greeted with the same attitude as you described ( do what I say and quit bothering me) and also ordered his book on handgun hunting which I felt was more of a catalog of his products then anything else. I have to say that you went through a hell-of-a-go-around with his .510 before it was working properly which is a damm shame. This type of gunwork reminds me more of an assembly line rather then an individual, one-at-a-time custom handgun. A long time ago I found out that a mistake in as little as .002" can ruin a fine handgun and, like you, search out the best the industry has to offer. One day I will tell you of my experience with his .356GNR cartridge..... Fowler, Since I live in the state of NJ I can`t carry my handguns ,however, when hunting my S&W 45 Colt Mtn.Gun as been on my side more then any other. She carries a load of HS-6 under a 280gr SWC-GC bullet for a little less then 1000fps...
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